Zipang and the fan.... - Page 2

bluefront · #11 (**permalink**) 05-23-2008, 12:42 PM

Two posts at the same time.....

Regarding the Zipang fan start-up problems...... My controllers (NoiseMagic NMT3 and M-Cubed FanAmp) both give a short start-up burst of 12V to get the fan spinning, then settle down to 5V, until the sensor heats up. The Zipang fan starts to spin upon starting, but completely stops when the controller goes down to it's default 5V. It seems to require about 7-8V to stay spinning.

With these controllers, the Yate Loons work flawlessly, as well as the Evercool. It's easier/cheaper to change fans, rather than the controllers.

tonschk · #12 (**permalink**) 05-23-2008, 11:15 PM

I use software programs to control the speed of the fans connected with the MoBo , I try to avoid more cable clutter due to rheostats and fan controllers inside the case

bgavin · #13 (**permalink**) 05-25-2008, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tonschk

...therefore no problem if installed in vertical or horizontal position

Are you speaking as a knowledgeable fan design engineer, or anecdotal experience?

If anecdotal, it is just opinion and not fact. Lots of people smoke and don't get cancer, but the practice still causes harm.

I'm not a fan engineer, but I've seen a whole lot of text about shortened life spans on vertical axis sleeve bearing fans. My requirements are reliability first, noise second. I want to find quality 120mm fans for power supplies also, and they have a vertical fan axis.

I remove the Scythe fan from my Zipangs, and replace it with the Red Scorpion. This provides sufficient cooling, and lets me use the Scythe 140mm with the Red Scorpion 120mm adapter as a case fan. It is dead quiet at 12v and perfect as a case fan.. just a bit weak for the Zipang.

hiroshige · #14 (**permalink**) 05-26-2008, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bgavin

My requirements are reliability first, noise second.

So why don't you use our products where you will get both reliability and hardly any noise?

bluefront · #15 (**permalink**) 05-27-2008, 12:51 PM

Hiroshige.... It is certainly nice to have quiet fans and a quiet computer. But it is unrealistic to think customers would design a computer around a specific heat-sink and fan. In my setup, I already had the MB and the CPU and the case. The Zipang fit the setup just fine, but the fan was too slow.

If I were using a Pentium M CPU, or something similar, the Zipang fan would have been just fine. But my CPU can draw >100W. The Zipang fan just won't work.

bgavin · #16 (**permalink**) 05-28-2008, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hiroshige

So why don't you use our products where you will get both reliability and hardly any noise?

I do!

IMO, the Zipang is the best cooler on the market for both reliability and low noise. The down draft design cools the north bridge and all VRM area. This is significant, and a point that most of the fan boys overlook when they use a tower cooler for over clocking.

The Zipang fins are supported symmetrically, both left and rights sides and the base, for sturdy construction and no strain on the heat pipes. Zipang can rotate in 4 different positions, to match most boards. Even with the anemic stock fan, it is in the top 10 best coolers for CPU temperature delta. I use a faster fan and get better VRM/NB/CPU cooling without objectionable noise. I reuse the stock Scythe fan with a 120mm adapter for case cooling.

bluefront · #17 (**permalink**) 06-02-2008, 12:01 PM

FWIW..... SilentPC Review just reviewed the Zipang cooler. Worth a read for sure. It tested as one of the better blow-down coolers.

Scythe Zipang 14cm fan "blow-down" CPU cooler | silentpcreview.com

tonschk · #18 (**permalink**) 06-09-2008, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bgavin

I'm not a fan engineer, but I've seen a whole lot of text about shortened life spans on vertical axis sleeve bearing fans. My requirements are reliability first, noise second. I want to find quality 120mm fans for power supplies also, and they have a vertical fan axis.

.

Sleeve bearings fans can have shorter life if not properly oiled once in a while ( Each six months by at least ), some people never add oil to a fan , this people dont want to add a few drops of oil to the bearings ,because they wait till the sleeve fan is dry to change the fan , I add once in a while to the bearings of my Scythe and YateLoon sleeve fans a little bit of a special molibdenum ( antifriction ) creamy grease ,therefore my sleeve fans will last forever in vertical or horizontal position ,I do this already two years and never got a dead fan in my computer

The fan Lifespan that you are talking refer to people that never add oil to the bearing of their fans ,those fans sooner or later become dry of course

bgavin · #19 (**permalink**) 06-09-2008, 09:13 PM

In the real world, fans do not get regular lubrication from regular users. The enthusiast is a different individual and pays more attention to his fans.

None of my clients are going to pay a $50 service call, and pro-rated $75 per hour labor to lubricate a $5 fan. I have my clients on a 3-year rotation plan for fans, power supplies and disk drives. Everything gets replaced. During that interval they have to last.

bluefront · #20 (**permalink**) 06-10-2008, 12:29 AM

The other thing is this....the fan blades and shaft are not easily removable with most fans. So the only bearing you are likely to be able to lubricate is the rear bearing. The second bearing, under the blades, is not serviceable.

That's why sleeve bearing fans are not likely to last as long as other bearing types. Still.....three years or more out of a good sleeve bearing fan is normal.

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#11 (permalink) 05-23-2008, 12:42 PM
bluefront Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: St Louis, USA Posts: 58	Two posts at the same time..... Regarding the Zipang fan start-up problems...... My controllers (NoiseMagic NMT3 and M-Cubed FanAmp) both give a short start-up burst of 12V to get the fan spinning, then settle down to 5V, until the sensor heats up. The Zipang fan starts to spin upon starting, but completely stops when the controller goes down to it's default 5V. It seems to require about 7-8V to stay spinning. With these controllers, the Yate Loons work flawlessly, as well as the Evercool. It's easier/cheaper to change fans, rather than the controllers. __________________ Peace and Quiet.

#12 (permalink) 05-23-2008, 11:15 PM
tonschk Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: London UK Posts: 34	I use software programs to control the speed of the fans connected with the MoBo , I try to avoid more cable clutter due to rheostats and fan controllers inside the case
	Last edited by tonschk; 05-23-2008 at 11:21 PM..

#15 (permalink) 05-27-2008, 12:51 PM
bluefront Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: St Louis, USA Posts: 58	Hiroshige.... It is certainly nice to have quiet fans and a quiet computer. But it is unrealistic to think customers would design a computer around a specific heat-sink and fan. In my setup, I already had the MB and the CPU and the case. The Zipang fit the setup just fine, but the fan was too slow. If I were using a Pentium M CPU, or something similar, the Zipang fan would have been just fine. But my CPU can draw >100W. The Zipang fan just won't work. __________________ Peace and Quiet.

#17 (permalink) 06-02-2008, 12:01 PM
bluefront Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: St Louis, USA Posts: 58	FWIW..... SilentPC Review just reviewed the Zipang cooler. Worth a read for sure. It tested as one of the better blow-down coolers. Scythe Zipang 14cm fan "blow-down" CPU cooler \| silentpcreview.com __________________ Peace and Quiet.

#19 (permalink) 06-09-2008, 09:13 PM
bgavin Junior Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 17	In the real world, fans do not get regular lubrication from regular users. The enthusiast is a different individual and pays more attention to his fans. None of my clients are going to pay a $50 service call, and pro-rated $75 per hour labor to lubricate a $5 fan. I have my clients on a 3-year rotation plan for fans, power supplies and disk drives. Everything gets replaced. During that interval they have to last.
	Last edited by bgavin; 06-09-2008 at 09:14 PM.. Reason: edited for typos

#20 (permalink) 06-10-2008, 12:29 AM
bluefront Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: St Louis, USA Posts: 58	The other thing is this....the fan blades and shaft are not easily removable with most fans. So the only bearing you are likely to be able to lubricate is the rear bearing. The second bearing, under the blades, is not serviceable. That's why sleeve bearing fans are not likely to last as long as other bearing types. Still.....three years or more out of a good sleeve bearing fan is normal. __________________ Peace and Quiet.