Katana 2 has no retention bracket

[avmf8]

One site out of many sites. I checked the Asus website and it never said anything about the retention bracet coming with the board. Why would I even think to look at the CPU manufactures website?

Also the mother board comming with it is for a motherboard. Not a CPU cooler. I have a 775 motheboard that came with a Cooler and the Sata cables and some fans and little heatsinks. Most motherboards do not come with that and this one did.

I even spoke with Asus and they told me that some came with the motherboard and some did not. Asus said that they only sell stuff like brackets to manufactures of computers and stores they do not sell stuff to customers.

They said they would only send me the part if it was for warranty which the warranty was gone the day I opened up and fixed the Pavillion a250n myself.

I asked Asus this after this happened. But before if I did not even know such info was availaible how can I be expected to know? How can I be blamed for not knowing when it is not exactly to much info on the subject. You could find it since you knew what you were looking for I did not so it is not very fair to expect me too have found that info out.

Part of my research was to look at the manufacturer website in this case it was Scythe. Remember I have experince with newer architecture. As it turns out I could have bought a socket 478 motherboard that came with the plastic part and the cooler for 50 bucks. Having to buy a retention bracket would be 20 bucks and that is the cheapest I could find.

Since not many computer stores in Canada sell computer parts online. The ones in the states that do gouge Canadians for shipping. They would say 35 bucks to 50 bucks for shipping a small plastic piece without the backplate.

Even the Canadian online PC stores charge about 10 bucks for shipping. Then I have to pay tax on top of it so it would be about 20 to 25 dollars. I selected this katana 2 for the price. Some of the more expensive ones I was looking at did have the part but it was 80 dollars so I opted for this one. Turns out I should have bought the 80 dollar one. Since this one by the time I buy the retention bracket is almost the same price as the more expensive one.

The more expensive one has a better way to attach the fan for one thing. It did not have a clamp fitting like this one does. Which I would have been fine with for the cheaper price. Now I am not to happy with it and wish I had not bought it after this trouble.

It boils down too I am tired of being expected to know everything and it is always called my fault. I buy new software and it is glitchy and won't work they call it my fault. I buy a pavillion a250n that comes out of the box damaged and I get blamed saying the thing had issues from me abusing it.

Which was not the case so I took a major loss with the computer. Now that purchase is still coming back to haunt me. Now it looks like if I have to buy that part I am better off buying a new motherboard and cutting my losses to get rid of every last bit of that a250n before it causes me anymore grief.

[hiroshige]

Hello avmf8,

thank you for your response.

Originally Posted by avmf8

One site out of many sites. I checked the Asus website and it never said anything about the retention bracet coming with the board. Why would I even think to look at the CPU manufactures website?

The Intel-homepage is surely not one site out of many sites, because the CPU manufacturer is responsible for the design of all CPU-sockets and for standardization of the specifications for them. All mainboard-suppliers have to fulfil these specifications - especially Intel is really strong in having a look for mainboard-manufacturers to use the standards they give.

I think now you got your information: This bracket is part of your mainboard, so there is no reason why we should include it to our coolers and why we should exchange it for free, right?

For me, this discussion is finished, because it is waste of time in my eyes. First you were blaming Scythe for your errors, now you are blaming all other companies for punishing you for you nescience. As you see, Asus also will not give you any accomodation for the broken bracket, so why should we? Maybe you should think about, why it is called everytime you fault, when you have problems with new hard- or software. Maybe, there is a little bit of or even more than a little bit of truth when manufacturers are telling you that? Just imagine the glass-thing again: When you brake a glass and when you will say "Oh, i didn't know it will brake" - whose fault was it? And when you brake a 478-socket which is heat-stable up to 70°C and out of plastic which is tested to be stable for years - whose fault was it?

Cheers,
Stefan

[avmf8]

If you are saying I broke the bracket that is not true. But at any rate how it broke is errelivant. Why not have the cooler just attach like the newer ones attach with a pin system? Really one of those would fit if it was over just a bit more. So why would I not think a CPU cooler would attach that way.

How would I know it is a undustry standard? Those are older parts and I never actually bought that motherboard seperately. So how would I know you would have to know where to look to find that info and if you know where to look then you already know the said info. This is not something I have been doing for years.

Also if it does not come with the part why not have the site simply say what that document said? They do not know if the person buying is very experinced in that area. Do you know everything?

Can you simply figure out how to rebuild a engine without being taught how? No and there is not exactly a course you can take to learn it unless you are going to get a job building computers. So most people who do it learned on there own. So it is reasonable to think I may not know.

Ok I once purchased the wrong CPU ok that I took ownership for since that was info I could have found out easy. So I did do allot of research for this cooler. I had to just to find one that even could fit.

I looked at about 50 sites on this info no kidding. Not one of the sites I looked at said anything about the retention bracket comming standard with the board. It was simply something that I did not see it is simple to overlook something as small as that.

I could not even find a retention bracket for sale I knew what it was called. But I was not aware of it being standard with the motherboard how could I? Only way I could have was if I stumbled opon the info.

So the CPU I will admit was my fault this retention bracket thing however is not my fault. I will not take owner ship for something that was not my fault. I did the research and even then I still ended up with the wrong thing.

When I contacted NCIX about the retention bracket they used a PC case for an example. They told me that it is standard for the screws to come with the PC case not the motherboard.

Well I had more than one case that came that way but I did not know it was an industry standard. How would I even look up info like that. You have a job dealing with PC issues all the time so of course you would know that. But you guys have to understand something that you know not everyone would know.

So why not say if parts are needed to help someone out who may not be aware of such info. If you are not aware info exists how can you try and seek that said info?

[hiroshige]

Hello avmf8,

newer coolers like 775 use a completely new mounting system, that's the reason, why they were attached e.g. with pushpins or screws. But if you have a look at AM2/AM2+ and 939 you will find mounting-methods similar to those of 478. The reason is quite simple: Screws could damage the mainboard, but when u use a device like these plastic mounting-kits it is nearly impossible to destroy something on the mainboards PCB.

You are asking "how could I know" quite oftenly - actually, NOW you know, so I don't get it why you are still asking us to support you giving a retention bracket for free. Same for the Info that you could get this bracket at ebay.ca - now you know this, why don't you use the new information?

So if you are sure, that the broken retention-module was not your fault, you have to ask the mainboard-supplier. But I guess, you are out of the warranty-period, so he will tell you, that you have to buy the module by yourself.

Of course, I understand that you are not happy and that your situation regarding shipment costs etc. is not satisfactory. But unfortunately, we just can't do anything for you, because we don't have to do support for your mainboard - I hope you can understand this. Just an example: When you buy a desk with some special appliance for your monitor and this appliance gets broken - whom would you ask for replacement? The manufacturer of your desk or the manufacturer of you monitor?

Cheers,
Stefan

[Katana Mugen]

Even though you're pretty well informed unlike your usa collegues who don't give a .... You probably missed a point or two about s478.

I must admit, i really didnt know that retention bracket on s478 did only need to withstand 70C. It's extremly low point. But also i think brittleness of overcooked bracket shouldn't be an issue here.
Things were different and much better in K7 time (they have same retention on the socket like s370) did need to withstand 95C and have two auxilliar notches on every side (if crappy socket manufacturers like FOXCONN didn't go with cost reductions and have only rightmost auxilliar notch installed on sockets they produce). So in that times we could more or less rely on socket retentions which were developed to really withstand heat and idiot-user that could multiple times fiddle around heatsink for cleaning-removal-exchange purposes. Ntm, that socket 370 was mostly 35W and less (not pure heat obviously).
In the later socket 462 (socket A) they did start with additional proposal of for holes around socket obviously for some purpose (Thunderbird,Palomino exhaustive heating) and Zalman vf7000 use that feature for mounting their additional retention system cause of heavyweight cooler (HWC) champions they started to introduce into market.

Socket 478 (like s775 original pushpin retention also, but lets focus on s478) is nowhere near as good to hold heavy coolers without above mentioned mods as for vf7000 and similar. If you recall original s478 intel boxed stock coolers have PLASTIC RETENTION SYSTEM. And if you wonder why, probably cause plastic doesnt conduct heat as well as metal (otherwise we cold have full featuring plastic coolers and that was dirty cheap and good solution for s423/478 to have plastic/plastic bond. It also shouldnt grind down weaker plastic on sockets s370/s462 (notches for coller) during multiple removals. And it could easily retain that 250g alu coolers that was usual for the boxed cpu of that time.

On the other side, many aftermarket cooler suppliers used metal retentions (and metal conduct heat) and if intel really had that kind of crappy specs for their retention brackets to only withstand 70C it's in fact good enough even for metal retentions. Because if some of older you remember P4 CPU class first introduce throttling to reduce overheating and that jump into action at pretty low points (60C and there you have worse CPU than P3 and if core reaches 80C outer cooler was nowhere near 80C maybe 60C so in fact even metal retentions couldnt fry plastic brackets if CPU was not burning at 95-100C and that was a throttle all around with 25% efficiency so in fact you have 800MHz CPU that was cooking @3.2GHz. (Well it's not the point also )
The point is that for outer plastic bracket, to be burnt as you claim, at 70C (according to specs as you say) you need to have cpu core burning at around 100C, metal retentions for cooler and cooler itself at 70C or up.
In fact, even that dear customer of yours bittering about "damage made by himself", if brackets were according to specs. And i myself saw quite enough FoXCONN brackets with broken one eye (retention holder) on systems that no one even tried to install anything better than boxed intel's stock cooler i feel free to say that you overestimate 80% of s478 retention brackets lifespan. Even for s604 Xeon class i dont think they developed it with 10yrs life expectancy in mind.
In fact overproducing FOXCONN even go as far to deliberately weaken bracket holders to mobo (that with s478 pushpins to secure) so if one of four retention holder (eyes) wont break, at least 1-3 holders break after 3-5yrs (and the newest s478 is from 2003) with (again) only stock cooler ever installed (250g aluminium).
And after all, you're in selling aftermarket enthusiastic coolers businnes that goes up to 1kg and you (Scythe customer support) believe that some poor and deliberately Low Quality (LQ) s478 retention bracket should hold that .
I believe, even avfm8 didnt know how to speak out that, that you should for s478 go beyond poor intel specs, which is easiest way for you to claim compatibility. And go with retentions that are enough for themselves (and enthusiastic users --- the busseniss youre in) without installed brackets (Asus just like fc, while amco and lotes were 300% better). Yep it would mean that you need retention design for obsolete? spocket 478. But few M6 screws, standoffs (spacers) and screwing (alternative) mechanism to install cooler onto s478 could be just as cheap as they're now.

And as far s775 goes pushpins are just too down beneath humongous cooler that could be easily installed as some "service management" predicts. And while they're good enough (without idiot-user) for small boxed coolers cause they could be easily accessed during install/uninstallment, for oversized AM coolers they certainly are not good on long run as you say. You also forgot about W=F*s when you have huge HP cooler which heavily leans on one side by its weight. In those cases "intel's specification" pushpin retention just dont hold against threatning spillout. HWC will grind that pushpin holder plastic against harder mobo pcb holes especially if you have some direct vibrations (from malfunctioning fan, or higere speed rotating fan even 2000rpm past 92mm makes good enough vibrations). So in fact you should work on that s775/1366/1156 retentions also.

And my bitter sweet is s754/939/AM2/AM3 retainer on Kama Angle. While that notches reduction system could be good for many coolers on Angle you're always had one side of retention directly beneath attached cooler fins. (While other is free to manipulate). And if you install it on third notch (and you really need to work around removal from notch which is time consuming even with flat pliers, not hands) you cant be safe that cooler is on that heatsink covered side properly fasten to bracket and in some cases even 3+3 doesnt help to fasten cooler without some 1-1.5mm spacer beneath cooler base


btw. hi, hello and cheers inside a thread (even when CS is in the matter) is too much patronising and not just as nice template you people are obliged, by bully management, to use in your responses.